Elenor Snow Testimonials

Several years ago, I started saving out of various email discussions the “kudos” people sent me. In most cases, I have not retained the identity of the person who submitted the comment. People join these lists using pseudonyms to protect their privacy, and I would not violate that privacy. For some, who’ve either given permission or are openly using their personal or professional identify, I have retained identifying information.

Sections:

Comments on my professional work
Comments about taking over Micro-Metrics Co.
My webpages
Web design work
Web design critiques
Podcast reviews
My cruise website(s)
Posting on assorted other forums and lists
Random others
Dating, mating, marrying advice lists

Comments about my work

Boeing Military Air letter of commendation signed by Larry Buchart, Iceland Air Defense System (IADS) Proposal Manager and Robert McMahon, IADS Program Manager, Seattle, WA

“Elenor Snow was not only a cheerful delight to be around, whose sense of humor kept our heads above water, but she is a first-class editor whose attention to detail made a significant contribution to the accuracy of our proposal. Most people would have suffered the handicap of being brought in late and shifting on and off such a proposal, but Elenor’s skill helped her overcome that impediment and made her a highly valued member of our team.”

(There were six of some sort of “station“ in the proposal; but the descriptions and specs only described five of the six. I pointed that out and they (gratefully) wrote-in the sixth. It was possible that such a silly mistake could have resulted in Boeing NOT getting the contract!)

Brenda Sartoris, PhD., Manager of Procedures and Technical Documentation, Lockheed Martin, Richland, WA

“Elenor Snow is the only editor I have encountered whom I would trust to edit my documents — and I make my living as an editor.”

Bart Preecs, M.S. in Communication, U.W., Seattle, WA., Co-author, The Panorama Handbook

“Elenor’s an editor’s editor. I’ve been a professional writer and editor for many years, but whenever I let Elenor look at my stuff, she always finds a way to make it better.”

Dr. Paul DiVico, Statistics instructor, Columbia Basin College, Richland, WA.
(comment on (1994) final exam paper)

“This is truly a superb piece of work. Especially at an intro course level. Text is clear and flows. Rationale logical. Data analysis reasonable, as is interpretation. Please mail me a copy. Nice job. Your occupational background shows. A+ What do you charge to edit research manuscripts?”

H&R Technical Associates, Inc.
Editing Markup Evaluation Sheet for WHC TWRS FSAR Project

(I was one of only two editors (out of about 30 in the department) who passed the (commercial, contracted-in) editing test and qualified for this project.)

Candidate shows particular skill in handling analytical and clarity/readability issues, which are the two most important qualifying areas for this project. Candidate is competent in all other evaluation areas. The points noted under “Mechanics” are quite minor. Citation of these minor points is intended only to help an obviously very good editor become even better.

Clarity and Readability: Editor did much excellent rewriting to improve clarity and readability.

Analytical Thinking (logic): Editor demonstrates fine sensitivity issues of text integrity and logic by recognizing that the Author’s seemingly simple error in including “forward” references may mask other much more significant problems. Recognizes that text such as this, which contains technical details, should not be stricken without querying Author concerning intentions in including the information in an apparently inappropriate location and making sure the material is adequately covered elsewhere. Note: This type of response, which is typical of this editor’s skilled text management, is primarily what qualifies her at the senior level.

Paul Stevenson, President, P.S.D. Trauma Tech International, Vancouver Canada

I am completing an examination for a professional designation as a Certified Health and Safety Consultant (CHSC) through the CSSE (Canadian Society of Safety Engineering). The CSSE uses Dr Sandman’s work extensively in their Applied Risk Communication (ARC) course. I found your notes (http://www.snowtao.com/risk.htm) during preparatory research and although I have many Sandman 12 interpretations to work from I am finding your notes succinct and very useful.
Thanks! Best Regards, Paul
Followed by, after I told him my notes were from the early ’90s
Floating around in cyberspace for more than 10 years and still relevant… Thanks again for your notes of the past!

Jean-Honoré Civetta, elected official, Cagnes Sur Mer, France

Thank you Elenor for the abstract you have done on Prof. SANDMAN class. As local elected in southern France, this overview will be very useful for I’m in charge … It’s difficult (we have lots of activists in the area) to obtain an agreement. Now, thanks to you, I know how to act.

CJ Hawk, Computer Systems Analyst at SAIC and friend

I haven’t worked with hundreds of writers and editors in my 30 career years but I’ve worked with a slug of them and you, dear friend, are head, shoulders, AND chest above anyone I’ve ever worked with! You have attained something that I desire for myself: you are an expert in your field. Not many people are experts in their field, Elenor. If you deny that you are an expert or deny that this makes you in a unique position in the job market I will have to come to Hotlanta and slap you! <VBG>

(Comment on my advice list where I was worrying about moving cross-country)

Other comments

You are a very good writer. I wish there were a way you could use your technical writing skills professionally; the world would be a better place if you explained more of it to people! (Dr. Jody Lanard)

Comments about taking over Micro-Metrics Co.

Michael died in July 2011. I took over Micro-Metrics and had to figure out how to keep it going.

I can’t help but think that if you ultimately sell your business, you could farm yourself out as a consultant in about five different fields, probably having experienced more in the last year about getting things done than most consultants do in their entire professional careers. The thing that keeps resonating with me is that as brilliant as Michael was in managing the business, you, on your own, have found improvements and better ways of doing things (out of necessity) than he had done at the time of his death. What a powerful tribute to your common sense, research capabilities and understanding of the needs of the business. Please take the time in your busy schedule to give yourself a pat on the back.

I am not into writing or reading blogs, but the one you have is excellent. The images are fantastic. Nice. (Bill Corbit at KTA)

Who knew you were a innate industrial capitalist awaiting the opportunity to be born? (Meredith)

I am so impressed with the job that you are doing modernizing and streamlining the company! You’ve really got the skills to make this thing work and in a way that seems like it won’t eat up all of your time sitting there and manufacturing. You go, sister! (Abigail)

Like your mother and sister I am awed by how you have thrown yourself into a complete unfamiliar business. Don’t be modest or say you had to do it. It’s one hell of an achievement and speaks volumes about you. (Sam)

I have much respect for how you have carried on with the business and I know how proud Michael would be. You are an amazing woman. (Sherri Thompson, Marketing Manager at Paul N. Gardner Co., Micro-Metrics distributor)

I have a very strong feeling that your customers love doing business with you and I wish you and your company great success in 2014 and beyond. (Some salesman, when I gracefully turned him down)

(A year after Michael's death) I think it’s fantastic that you’re making a go of the business. It’s really what you had to do one way or the other – either to keep the business and grow it or sell it as an on-going concern. And you’re doing it. I know it hasn’t been easy, but you’ve got to be feeling some confidence now (at least some), having gotten this far after such a difficult, tragic situation. (Michael Dominy, Esq.)

Wow, so it’s been two years and five months. I am very proud of you for what you’ve been able to accomplish – and under such difficult circumstances. And the fact that you’ve not only kept the business going but are managing to keep it profitable – why that’s simply amazing. You’re a survivor. There’s no question about it. You’ve got what it takes. (Michael Dominy, Esq.)

My webpages

My Tai Chi Chuan article: “The Value of Relaxation”

Thank you so much for you insightful article in Tai Chi magazine. … Your article made me understand what happened in a physics way. Your insights and revelations are not in vain.
I recently remembered a great short little article I found years ago by a woman named Elenor Snow who’s trained in both Chen and Yang. If I wanted to tell someone why they should look into taiji (especially Chen style), I couldn’t find better words than this. Maybe I will someday, but until then, I bow with respect to these wise words on “The Value of Relaxation.”
SNOW TAO Couldn't resist that title! Elenor Snow is a taiji practitioner and teacher who wrote a real good article that I originally linked to on the Chenquestion blog. She and I had exchanged an email several years ago but that was it until she happened to find me and my blog the way I found her and her article; through search engine technology. So today she posted a comment on the Chenquestion blog and since I am techno-semi-illiterate I am pasting it here… My post "Tai Chi Inspiration" linked to Elenor's article "A Fresh Look at the Value of Relaxation"
Great tai chi article! Thanks!! It put into words many things I've experienced working on movement. Maintaining relaxation and responsiveness in as many muscles as possible while tensing and relaxing the muscles needed to move as efficiently as possible… not easy, not easy at all. (Ben Fury on Dr. Mike Eades’ blog)
I also enjoyed your article and even bookmarked it. Thank you, Elenor. (Galina on Dr. Mike Eades’ blog)

My website page: “How to Stack Cats”

Elenor, first let me say I am a dog person! However, after viewing your How to Stack Cats page, you have converted me. As a photographer there are some shots that are not only enchanting but artistically superior. I was laughing so hard as I was looking at the pictures at my desk instead of working that I spilt my drink. Thank you for giving me a laugh to get through the day with.

Web design work

Redesign of the WBGarvey author's website:
Oh El, it looks fabulous. Thanks! The publisher hasn’t had a chance to weigh in yet but I give it a hearty thumbs up. Did you change the mission statement from manuscript to notebook on your own? Because I was gonna suggest exactly that. You’re the bomb! (Author Wint Garvey)
A pre-cruise website I made for a friend’s cruise:
Your own webpages are gorgeous – would you allow me to cut and paste some of your text into mine? The more I look at the website you made for me the more astonished I am! (Nancy about a cruise website I made for her)
(Some large, rush) additions to the Sandman website:
THANK YOU! This was really fast, really good work, and we are incredibly grateful. You are amazing. Unbelievable to do all this in less than 24 hours. (Peter Sandman and Jody Lanard)
My Micro-Metrics blog:
Wow, that looks beautiful!! Good job!
WOW, it is fantastic to see Elenor Snow, technical writer, in action, and just for ME! I do not dare touch the website tonight while I’m so tired. But now I am all excited about trying it tomorrow a.m.! Thank you SO MUCH. You are so awesome. And so much fun, too. (Dr. Jody Lanard)
Thanks for the tutorial! Very helpful. Clearly you are developing amazing expertise, from which Peter's website will greatly benefit. (Dr. Jody Lanard)

Web design critiques

As a way to “giving back” to the group, on some self-publishing forums I belonged to, I gave some folks website critiques (mostly when asked).

Site reviews for “Silvercat”
Wow! Thanks for taking so much time to give me such useful feedback. I appreciate it a lot!
Dear Elenor, Thank you so much for your thoughtful review of my site. I really appreciate it and will get to work with my web-friend making improvements!
Site review for Living your Road Trip Dream
You did a beautiful job of pawing through the site! I met with my webmaster last Saturday and many of the issues that you mentioned, we thought of also. It is great to get your confirmation and some additional ideas from a trained eye. The visited links is one that escaped both of us. Your dedication to helping your list mates is outstanding!
Brilliant – and difficult! LOL! Will give it a go! Thanks so much, El. You are amazing!
Elenor, Thanks, for the wonderful feedback! This was my first stab at web design and I can see where your hints make lots of sense. There are lots of things that I would like to do, but don’t know how to do … so, the process of self-education continues… (oh, for more time in the day!) I do agree there are several odd wordings and such that will be easy enough to fix … thanks for the keen eye! Do you do your own web design?
Site review for Rita Toews, www.thebullybook.com:
Elenor – I’m amazed at the detail you put into your “looks” at the websites. I’ve read them and hope I’ve learned a lot. You can check out my site anytime you want!
Followed (after my critique) by: Oh, Boy! This is so good. Such great observations. Thank you! I’m going to use most of them. Super!
Personally, I love your in-depth web critiques. Shel Horowitz – copywriter, marketing consultant, author, speaker
Thanks everyone for your input on my website critique………especially to Elenor………I will forward your comments to my graphic designers………
On a question how to name a small publishing company, I wrote:
Would “WS Press” do? If you’re keeping the series title “Workplace Spirituality” – and I think you should, it sounds non-denominational and intriguing – and since you have the “Workplace Spirituality” domain names, “WS Press” (or Books, or Publishing or whatever) allows you to put your “short” publisher name on the spine, and still have the full URL on the back and so on…
She answered: WOW – what a simple, neat idea.

Podcast Reviews

Podcast No. 1

I LOVE the podcast, so wonderful to hear your voice and I think they’d make a great addition to the more important issues discussed on the board.
Wow, this is great Elenor, I can listen on the train to work. More please! You’d be great doing a audiobook too!
But speaking of speaking my dear El, I finally had the opportunity to listen to your podcast and I believe that with a bit of training, you, my darling, have the potential for a career using your voice – books on tapes, voice-overs etc. It’s the east coast “fast talk” that you have that would need to be slowed down – and believe me I have it sooooo badly that I have actually had my accountant ask me if it were possible for me to speak slower as he was having a hard time keeping up! (LOL) but your voice is melodic and easy to listen to…

Podcast No. 2

El, great job I must say. You sounded like you do that all the time!
This was great! Good job El! It definitely is different to hear your message spoken.
I think your voice is lovely and you might have a side career in the voiceover/books on tape arena

My cruise websites

Before every cruise Michael and I took, I would go through the shore excursion options and identify sights not to be missed or things to try in every port; and then I made up a web page for each port. As each cruise group on Cruise Critic got together and “named” our cruise group, I would add to the website (info about and lists of names as people signed up for) the various events and arrangements group members were making: non-cruiseline group tours, meet-and-mingles and cabin crawls (to see cabins at every level), mini-golf tournaments, , and onboard, group parties such as the Boarding Party and Sail-Away Party (for which I usually made nametags) and even a Precruise Pizza Party in London! This website would become a central check-in place for new folks joining the cruise group as they made reservations.

My post-cruise printed books

Elenor… Your book on the Radiance-class ships is outstanding. You are definitely the computer guru person here.

My Oasis ‘concierge’ (gift) book

Because Concierge Lounge marvel Reyno made our cruise on the Oasis such a total JOY, I made up a book “of him.” I had taken many pix of him in the Concierge Lounge, and he had said that his mother didn’t really know what-all he did for a living. I sent him the book to send to her.

He wrote:
I cannot tell you how great the surprise was to find my book....MY OWN BOOK!!!.... in the mail today. I cannot wait to share it with my family and friends and I love the Fuzzy Disclaimer* in the front... you are so right!!!!...my family will love each picture.

I have showed it off to all on the ship, I also have the Director of Guest Services travelling with us in 2 days..... I am so proud over my own book!!

Again thank you Elenor, you have made me soooo happy today and I will keep this book near and dear.

I answered:
Dear Reyno,
You’re very welcome, dear heart. You REALLY made my cruise a joy! I wish the book were of higher quality. I tried out a printing company I had only used once before. I’m not delighted with their work. The two bigger books I showed you on-board were printed by the company Blurb.

And he answered;
Your book has been seen by so many guest and crew, it’s the talk about town.....
Some of the guest said that they will visit your site and even said that the company should hire you.
Thank you again so very much.

*The Fuzzy Disclaimer reads: I’ve included out-of-focus pictures because they show something, or in the case of pictures of Reyno, because his family and friends will recognize (and value) postures and gestures that are uniquely his.

Alaskateer pre-cruise website

Your website is fabulous! Thanks so much for sharing.
Elenor, your website is terrific and very helpful!! Thanks!
I love all your beautiful pix and interesting info on your website, Elenor!
[Elenor] ….very well said….I agree with you!

Icy Jewels Cruise

Cruise Critic post about server security:

Elenor’s explanation is the clearest I’ve ever seen on the underlying operation.

About a Cruise Critic dust-up

An off-list message: I just wanted to thank you for your excellent posts last night and especially this morning. You were very diplomatic and thoughtful in your statements and I really expected that after the post last night this would have been over. I was shocked at his post this morning but your reply was spot on.
I really wish he would just stop all this as he is making a lot of people mad and not like him … My husband actually said he thought something like this was going to happen a while ago.
Sorry for taking this roll call issue to your personal email but I wanted to tell you that I loved your response this morning and I hope it ends this … I just didn’t want to gush over you on the roll call!
Nicely put Elenor … I think this is a good explanation of what has transpired here today.
Amen, Elenor, for so clearly expressing my sentiments. Thanks for the diplomatic summary, Elenor.

Icy Jewels pre-cruise website

I’ve been blown away with what Elenor has put up on the web, but she is a techy pro in this stuff.
Elenor I took a moment to look thru your Web Site with the list of hotels, maps and description, beautifully done. I wish I had that ability, would love to do something like that.
Elenor you have a wealth of info on that webpage.
BTW, I have been trying to read all of your website. Very impressive.
Elenor, your site rocks.
Wow Elenor – We had multiple power outages today and I think they knocked out the bulb in our TV so I have enjoyed this evening looking at ALL your info and web sites. You are amazing and thanks so much for all you are doing to make this a voyage to remember.
You’ve done a fabulous job with your website and I often go there. Thank you for all the hard work you’ve done on it!
I am amazed at all the information on your website.
Both of your websites are wonderful. All of the information and pictures you have, Elenor, is so helpful.
Thank you so much Elenor, excellent information.
Elenor – I looked at your site and read for over an hour the other night. Thanks so much for all the info.
I just visited your website for the first time….awesome! Thanks for taking the time to post us this info.

Diamond Head pre-cruise website

WOW! What a great site and a wealth of information! Fantastic! Thank you!

Liberty of the Seas TransAtlantic pre-cruise site

El: We also want to thank you for all the info you’re putting together for us, You should know it’s very much appreciated.
Elenor is great to work with and can guide you in the right direction…
Again, many thanks to you, Elenor, and all the others here who are working so hard to make this such a memorable trip for our group. These lists and links are providing us all with valuable and important information, and are a great help to everyone in making their plans. This group is amazing!!
I have looked thru your website and am impressed with the amount of work you have put into it.
Thanks for all your hard work, your website is fabulous!
WOW, thanks so much Elenor. Your temp charts will really be a big help when packing.
I’d like to echo Elenor’s comments (all of them).
ELENOR…..Wow, wow, and more wow!!! I knew you helped to organize us in a fantastic way, but reading your most recent post, directed mainly to our newest members, really drove home to me just what a great and valuable job you have done on behalf of this entire group. My hat is off to you.
DITTO, DITTO, DITTO. You two take websites to a whole other realm. I am so impressed and can’t begin to thank you enough for all the time it takes to construct and manage this site for all of us.
Your web site is great and your effort is certainly appreciated.
… and a huge THANK YOU to El, our computer genius, who actually walked me through the mystery of my computer’s browser, and helped me to find a way of …
You are doing a fantastic job with all the info on the website. It is certainly appreciated and helpful.
On the Cruise Critic thread, someone posted to a new arrival:
I wouldn’t concern yourself with trying to read all the posts. Elenor has everything you should need on our Web Site.
The webpage being posted and updated is beyond anything I have ever seen and is such a great idea when the board is as active as this one. It has been immensely helpful to me.
Thank You, Thank you, Thank You to Mike and Elenor for the fabulous work they have done (and hopefully will continue to do).
DITTO! DITTO! DITTO! Plus, ours has to be the best website for any thread on CruiseCritic I have ever been involved with in the past!
Elenor, first I would like to compliment you on your website. It’s amazing! You are so talented!
Elenor, just want to send you a million thanks, … Once again Elenor Thank you for keeping us all in the know, looking forward meeting a real Angel
Thanks Elenor for this link. You did a great job and you are an Angel!
You are the one doing the amazing job. Your website is unbelievable. Very helpful to everyone.
I’ve just spent the past 2 hours or so reading thru the fantastic website you’ve put together for all of us… THANK YOU so very much for doing this. What a super great collection of information all in one place. I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate all the time and work you have devoted to this, I hope if time permits we have a chance to buy you a beverage of your choice and get to know you guys.

Alas, Michael died three months before this cruise, so I was not able to go and meet all these wonderful folks.

Comment on Cruise Critic.com about Brilliance of the Seas incident (heeling over in a storm)

Elenor, kudos to you for that excellent post.
Wise words MsArchangel.
Excellent post.
VERY WELL EXPRESSED. Thank you for a good realistic and civilized view on all this.

Posting on assorted other forums and lists

A final note: I have long admired not only your patient accumulation of fact, but the patient style you use in leading newbies here down the path. You’re one of the few people here who does it well, and watching you in action is always instructive and enjoyable. Wintermute
This is a very detailed, thoughtful and helpful contribution to this most difficult subject. We should be each other’s greatest fans and greatest source of nurture, protection and support. That your work is trying to bring this about is most admirable.
An excellent essay
Did I ever tell you that you are brilliant?
Fine post ma’am. It takes heart to say that in today’s PC atmosphere (even on this site).
Excellent observations! Excellent post.
Thanks for your post! It does make perfect sense.
Thank you all sooooooo much especially [Elenor], I feel so much better!
Excellent advice and terrific posts
Very good advice. I hope she listens to you.
Bravo! This is easily one of the best posts I’ve read on the subject. Thank you for posting it here.
I think Pat’s [Dr Pat Allen’s] and [Elenor]’s advice is generally very sensible. I have no doubt that dozens of people read [El]’s posts and do find them useful.

I was cleaning out my PM box and found this gem that I have wanted to quote and repost for all of the multitudes of guys posting “where/how do I FIND these females?” This message and its links are the best response I have ever seen on here and has personally helped me a lot. Mind if I quote it the next time somebody asks a question like it?
Brilliant post, It could very well happen.
Thanks for saying that so I don’t have to
Excellent as always
I always appreciate your take on things
I was going to reply, but [Elenor] said exactly what I was going to.
I am going through the entire thread and reading only [Elenor]’s messages, no one else’s. …because I want to be good at this, and she has the gift of teaching the subject.
Your posts never fail to amaze me. You’re brilliant.
From a man: Thank you for answering [Elenor]! I just finish reading the link to your thread, WOW, that’s a lot of information, very deep! Interesting vision, if you do apply all these rules to your life, well then you sound like the perfect woman to me.
From a different man: Bravo [Elenor], Though I find it funny that women seemingly think they know how we think, and what we want, I think you’re pretty close.
[Elenor], Thanks for your response. Your words have crystalized some of the thoughts I had.
First off let me say that your advice has been phenomenal.

(I wrote a longish comment about a gun holster design. The blog entry author answered me:) I could try to be eloquent here and praise each of your great points ~ but you’ve nailed it FOR YOURSELF and on behalf of SOOO many other women that I have nothing to add, except that I’m proud of you for knowing your body, your mindset and your needs… Thanks for sharing your insights. “High Caliber Women” (Lynn) http://www.usacarry.com/femme-fatal-holsters-corset-holster-review/
Elenor, I love your quote: “Never attribute to malice what can be explained away by incompetence!” Your points are very well taken.
My answer on being an anti-feminist on someone’s blog: Elenor – very impressive, I mean that with 100% sincerity. It is quite a rarity to come across someone, woman or man, who can articulate what you just did.
A discussion on the Yahoo group: CCW–WA: Conceal Carry Weapons – Washington state: Elenor, I think you’ve articulated some great points here.
Advice given on thyroid list: Thank you VERY MUCH, Elenor. I’ll do just that. Guess it can’t hurt.
Comment on a list entry: Just brilliant, Elenor! Thanks! So well put.
Advice (on dating) on a forum: Thank you very much for your kind advice. I read the two posts by you that you recommended and they certainly helped me to put my thoughts together. … I’ve encountered the reaction you speak of so eloquently on several occasions, and at this point I’m getting pretty tired of it. I’ve been thinking of ways to try to bypass the whole system and just wanted some advice on how to do it. Thank you for giving it to me. You’ve given me not only information, but hope and encouragement as well.
Web business decision: Good analysis. On balance, let’s do… (Peter Sandman)
On a letter to Hostgator support: Wow. You write a great letter. (Dr. Jody Lanard)
…that’s one of the best descriptions I’ve read. … Various parts of your post were useful to me and familiar. … Also, you wrote “If you want an alpha male/Yang mate, you’re not going to get a sweetness-and-light wimp; you’re gonna get a guy who likes weapons and women! A man who is intent on his status and his ranking against other men – because women’s rankings of him don’t count! Real uncomfortable stuff, that, for most ‘modern’ women.” Absolutely right. Competitive men who love women and can sometimes be hard to live with but well worth that price… (“Hera”)
Just wanted to say that I really loved your post. I am as well an alpha woman and it was wonderful to see someone with the same views as me! Thank you! (“Tigerlily2606”)
(answering a comment I posted) +100,000
I’ve opted to no longer reply to ____ but you nailed it. Sadly, we’ve tried to make these points to him before, to no avail. (“TWA44”)

I just read your big essay: Great. It really is. It should be read by all men.
(I wrote a longish answer about why I believe “forgiveness” is quite often the wrong 'counsel' for people who've been hurt or harmed. Some answers:) )
- Well said, Elenor, especially for a girl*. There's a huge distinction between forgiveness and just letting the stupid and bad stuff go, and getting on with the business of living.
- Thank you, Elenor! Great summation of what I've slowly come to realize in regards to my relationship (which no longer exists) with my sisters. You helped crystalize my thoughts.
- Elenor is a wise lady. would you tell a rape victim to “forgive her rapist”? methink NOT.
- Indeed, Elenor is pure gold. What do you expect from a former Navy Officer? … And her bit on the bullshit of apologies and how they are usually just demeaning is almost as good as my own post about them being domination tactics. (Richard Nikoley)

Random others

You're a really GOOD photographer!! I have seen photos by Pros that are NO better than these. (Val Young, designer)

Dating, mating, marrying advice lists

I run an advice list (a Yahoo! group) based on Dr. Pat Allen’s concepts for successful relationship creation.

I think that you are just incredible – all of the energy you spend answering people’s questions, and your well-composed, helpful answers and the careful way that you deliver your ideas… It’s very inspiring! I hope that you do produce a book from this. (Katherine Frank SSRC Sexuality Research Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Sociology, University of Wisconsin, Madison, www.katefrank.com)
El, those comments were really wonderful…and true! I can’t tell you how many times you’ve articulated a concept in a way that *I* was finally able to understand it. (the latest, but not the least, being the recent “bait” analogy) I try to simply repeat what you’ve been telling me for the last year+ but sometimes it just doesn’t seem to come out the same way.
Wow, Elenor, twice in one day!!! VERY good posts!!!
Thanks for your perfect analysis. It was a sheer joy to read! I agree completely.
I don’t think you have any idea how good at deconstructing these situations you are and how valuable your insight and kind advice is. (El’s note; actually, I do. {wink}) I’m amazed. Tons of the things you say are downright true!!
El… you are the first in these kind of groups to ‘hear’ me and give it back exactly how I feel. Bless you and thank you for hearing me.
Subj: French guy update: to fling or not to fling or why El is ALWAYS RIGHT.
Like I said, Elenor, I appreciate your straight forwardness.
Very helpful. Elenor, thanks so much for your information and advise. Writing up the list was so helpful to me. You are very good at figuring out just what someone needs and pointing them at the next best step. Thanks so much for your generosity… sharing this understanding you have… you have made a significant difference in my life the past weeks, and I don’t even want to think about the state of confounded confusion I’d be in at this point without your posts
Thank you so much for this very personal reply. I have been reading the board, and am very impressed with you. You have quite a level and intelligent head. I find your posts very ‘right-on’ as they say. You are quite a good writer, also.
aww El – first you made me cry then you made me laugh. I’m going to print this out and read it every time I think about him.
Elenor!! Your last line was brilliant!! “The difference between us hurts!” (She had written: “But why is it that I want to throw rocks at boys?”)
Wow El, again, your incisive analysis has hit the nail on the head.

Pat Allen’s system (and especially Elenor’s take on it) is inherently positive, not anti-men and not anti-women either. This is not easy, and Elenor manages not to fall into beating up one sex or the other. … Elenor’s approach may seem tough to some, but far from being cruel or unfeeling, it is entirely consistent with what the research suggests is the best way to feel better and do better and feel happier in life.
El – as usual – BRILLIANT! … But for as much as I want very much to be a frittering-away-my-
time princess, today, this opened my eyes…
I love your writing style and think you are very witty!
However, when I hear the frustration in El’s e-mails, it makes me realize what a job she’s taken on, and is indeed doing a very fine job! I know Pat Allen would be proud to have such a wonderful person spreading the word. We can only hope that people like El and Pat can impact enough people to make enough of a difference. (Jim Hallowes, www.HighlySensitivePeople.com)
Elenor, love the advice you gave in this post! It applies universally for men, women, of many situations, not just for love relationships.
Thank you Elenor. I think you hit the nail on the head. Anyway, you’re right … and I appreciate your candor.
Message subject line:
Advice needed: Separate role as a wife and employee (especially to Elenor)
And I am not sure that is the right way to handle things, but I don’t know what else to do. I am hoping that Elenor will have some good advice.
HAHAHAHA Maybe we should start addressing all posts as “Dear Elenor.” She does give great advice.
Elenor might get tired of us….lol
Thanks, Elenor – You handled this like a true lady. Very respectful and tactful. I appreciate your stewardship of the board.
WOW you have crystalized this for me in a way I’ve never seen before. I’m going to print out your reply to me and re-read it every day until any thoughts of him are completely GONE out of my life. Thank you – from the bottom of my heart. You’ve just saved me a billion dollars in therapy!
I get a kick out of your posts!

El – Brilliant insight! El – This is the hardest part of all – to be hurt AND still be open and vulnerable instead of being hurt and running away to protect yourself from any more pain. This is perfect advice– –I LOVE THIS. This is everything Pat says in a perfect / concise / nutshell. El – ABSOLUTELY TRUE IN MY CASE
The only miscommunication that could possibly be going on is that El is often perceived as exceedingly blunt and harsh in some circles, but on this forum, we understand that is the nature of her personality and if we didn’t appreciate her directness we wouldn’t be here, soliciting her advice. I myself have been known to engage in hot and heavy debate with El, but that is what it is, debate. I like that she challenges my thinking with her direct honesty, she pushes me to grow and stretch…that is what mentors are for. (Meg)
Wow! Quite profound. You get it! YOU GET IT!
Lol! Sometimes you just crack me up El, and I have to laugh out loud!
I LOVE your advice, it’s so spot on. This is a great answer and I agree 100%
I LOVE your advice btw!!
Thank you so much Elenor, for this wonderful, beautiful post. It brought tears to my eyes to feel so cared for and supported. Bless you, angel. You give me MUCH valuable food for thought which resonates deeply, and I am going to print this post out and carry it around for a few days.
You are very intelligent and intuitive El – I’m so happy to be on this board.
I always like your advice and think you are right on the money.
I especially love El’s suggestion to start everything off with the words “I feel.”
El, I couldn’t agree more with everything that you said.
Elenor, Brilliant post!
Exactly!! Great post El.

Thanks Elenor. I appreciate your being there.
Hi Elenor and all other surrendered wife, Thanks for the great advise on my earlier post in Sept. regarding “Managing Financial Difficulty”.
Everything you’ve said to me so far has resonated perfectly and been right on target.
Great advice El.
My therapist agreed with Elenor (and we were discussing male energy and female energy).
Hi Elenor, Thank you SO much for calling it like it is.
Oh, El, you’ve just reminded me of something very basic and very important.
EXACTLY!!! Beautifully said Elenor.
I love this interpretation Elenor!
Thanks El, your post actually brought me to some real eye-opening conclusions.
Thank you Elenor! I got your reply and it makes total sense.
I agree 150% with Elenor.
Oh my God, a lightbulb moment. Thank you El, as ever, you are at the nub of it all.

Great post. Thank you for pointing this out. Of course, you are completely right!
I have to echo what Elenor said.
Hi El, Yes, you’ve got it right.
Listen to wise Auntie El, S_____, she’s right.
El, Very good post!
Your analysis of my other dream was so amazing! How about this?
Thanks, Elenor, for putting so well the words I couldn’t think of.
Thanks Elenor, for inviting me to this group and opening my eyes to a whole new level of surrendering to my husband!
As usual, this is fantastically insightful Elenor.
Anyway, you have given me loads of food for thought Elenor,
Dear Elenor, Aha! This is super duper helpful to me.
Elenor these two paragraphs are really to the point about the need to learn lesson A first, plus the example you give is bang on – that is the sort of thing I was trying to convey to you.
The points you make are SUPER helpful to me.

I have really enjoyed Elenor’s posts in specific.
Elenor! You are a hoot! Wow this is really great.
Oh El … I need your kind sensible ear and advice right now.
I enjoy having you around Elenor, you give awesome advice
I didn’t think about it but Elenor is right that in order for my dream to have the best chance of coming true I do have to devote some energy to nurturing it along. Thanks for the perspective, now I don’t feel so dumb about it. In fact I feel more confident that it will one day come true.
Dear El, A really helpful response …
You add so much to the buffet around here … relax, Elenor. It’s all good.
Hi Elenor, Great post and well explained. Thanks!
Elenor’s response WAS SO GOOD!!! much better than mine
I hope I can overcome this addiction (as Elenor correctly catagorized it), by myself without having to “fess up” to my husband…
Serious kudos to you Elenor!
Hi Elenor, I feel kind of bad reading and responding to this “before” E____ does, BUT thanks so much for replying to her!! You have helped me also by giving this advice. Thanks for contributing to this message board Elenor!!
You’re the greatest!

Very good answer!! I wasn’t sure how to say this same thing without sounding rude. But you did a supreme job of it!!!
Dear Elenor, Wow, your comments really made me think … thank you for your time.
Great post. I agree with El 100%.
Wonderful post El and so very true.
Great post El!!!!
Thanks Elenor for the kind inf.
Thank you for listening to the heart of what I was rabbiting on about and humoring me! I really appreciate your graciousness
Well as much as I respect Elenor’s very logical & well-thought-out opinion (Thanks!, you always have great things to say!) I disagree…
I love El’s analogy about sparkling like a jewel
I’m sure Elenor can think of some more pertinent questions to help you get to the bottom of this.
Wow Elenor. I agree with what you have written.
Great advice Elenor!
I LOVE your input. You are very good at this advice thing.

I took Elenor’s very hard advice of the 8 week wait, with a few teary sessions in between, and after 4 weeks he came back, saying he realized what he was losing, and that he was absolutely sure that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me.
I’d love to know which lists you post to – you seem so wise and positive, I’d like to subscribe to all of them.
It is rather amusing to see someone suggesting that your posting style isn’t up to scratch – just when I was thinking how lovely your posting style is! People read things from their own perspective, and if they are negative, they will see darkness everywhere, whether it is there or not. I love your style. Don’t change! Looking forward to knowing which lists you are on! Must subscribe to them!
Elenor, you are so good at getting to the bottom of things. Can you please read Stronger Marriages message #42542 and jump in with some pertinent questions for S____? I asked her a few Q’s in a later post called “S____.” We need your expertise!
I STILL prefer your style and love your breezy, straightforward, positive approach.
Wonderful post El!!!! I agree 100%.
Wow Elenor, this is so helpful. El, I love your ‘sparkling’ theme – if nothing else that needs to sink in! And the following completely hits the nail on the head. … El, many, many thanks for understanding the sub-text so completely – I really appreciate your feedback so much.
THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, Elenor!!! I couldn’t have survived my date yesterday had you not responded to my post in time
El, you are amazing! You never cease to amaze me!
I love debating with El! She challenges me and makes me think – she’s wiser than I am.
Great post, Elenor. Thanks for your insights.
Y’know El, I am so happy you’re in my life, albeit in a cyber way. Thank god you’re there.
I love your advice El. You have no idea how you have helped me and changed me. Your advice literally changed my life.

Thank you! Thank you for that lightbulb moment.
Reread El’s post about 8 weeks and the cave, it is right on!
Thank you sooooo much for your advice and observations.
Incredible post, I agree 10000000000000%!
Elenor, Boy did you say this right! I learn a lot from your posts
Oh this is good – thank you again Elenor, and it is all a matter of perspective, you are right.
This is deeply encouraging to me. Everything you said in this email has really helped so much!!
I really appreciate your insights and have been thinking a lot about what you wrote.
Elenor, I couldn’t agree more.
Hi sweetie, It was so nice to finally finally finally meet you in person. YOU are soo feminine in person. As ‘chirpy’ as you are, your body language is of a real femme. It was lovely meeting your momma and Michael Ray too. :) Love, Athena (the L.A. Love Coach)
I would love your help in this. You seem to have a lot of knowledge in this stuff, and I could really learn a lot from you.
Ohhh, you’re such a breath of fresh air, Elenor! I LOVE your directness – such a pleasure to read. xxx I have to go to sleep now, and I shall think about your comments and criticisms and questions as I do so – with a big smile on my face. You’re a real tonic! Thanks so much. I really appreciate your messages. S____ (giggling – after feeling decidedly despondent most of the day – THANKS!)
Elenor, Did you have a chance to read my post about what happened between my husband and I this weekend? I ask because your advice/observations are always blunt and right on the mark. Do you have any advice on where I should go from here?

Elenor, Thank you so much. Your posting made so much sense to me and gave voice and reason to something I have been feeling very unsettled about.
You are so good at cutting to the core. You are right on the money.
Thanks for your thoughtful response, El – You are right, I guess I was feeling sensitive, but have seen the light :-) You make a lot of good points here about what went on with the communication – thanks for helping me make sense of it.
El, you’re one terrific lady :-)
Yes, ain’t she!!?? We’re very lucky to have her insight and inexhaustible interest in our situations – and she gives great Pat-based advise!
Just a witness, but wanted to say that is such a nice thing for you to have appreciated and verbalized to Elenor. Thanks, I don’t think I do that enough myself. Elenor, you do have a special talent for listening and offering kind (and supportive) advice that goes to the heart!
El has it right.
Elenor, you are a blessing!
El Thanks for your advice, it was SOOOOOO helpful in getting me to be yin and feeling-centered in my approach.
Well said Elenor!
El, Great post!
You’ve got SOOO many good suggestions. When do you start charging???? My friends are in awe of you.
I am thrilled with the conversation you and I have going and so happy you are taking the time and energy. Maybe I’ll just have to name our first mutual pet after you since kids are not likely.

Thanks Elenor! As always your replies are so helpful to me.
WOW, Truth is Helpful. Wow, oh wow, I needed that. Thank you so much, Elenor. Wow did I need to hear that spelled out. I need to be rid of all the denial. You have it EXACTLY right. I appreciate the bluntness Elenor. A lot of it is exactly on target, the rest is close, and it all has helped me tremendously. Thank you so very much.
Thank you a million times over for being open and direct. You are absolutely right. You have it EXACTLY right.
Elenor, I am so glad to read your comments! It’s like, wheeewwww! Other people are struggling / grappling / addressing similar issues.
Thanks Elenor! Your wisdom, life experience, and perspective is so refreshing! I’m glad you share your stories. I’m glad you’re there.
Thanks, Elenor, you have given me much to think about. You hit the nail on the head with the “smashed down feelings” part. That is exactly it.
I always appreciate your concrete feedback and your whimsical side too! It’s so refreshing to be able to talk about marital issues with other women who have been there or are currently there. Yes! I agree with you.
I am glad for the direction you provide Elenor
Elenor, you are brilliant. Thank you so much for – well – everything.
Elenor, that helps A TON. Very clear, very easy to understand, even not too hard to accept (at this moment). Am working on it anyway. Thank you *so * so* very much for talking me through this junk.
I just love your style Elenor. I know you are passionate about seeing people in healthy marriages and happy relationships. I think you could lead one of Pat’s seminars! I would be the first to sign up. You are direct, yet don’t hit folks over the head when they screw up – and at some point, we all do!
Thanks so much for sharing your (most *wonderful *insightful *honest and *helpful*) take on this stuff, Elenor. I’d be *so much further behind* in my struggle through this without your thoughts and generosity. I appreciate them to no end.
I loved the advice Elenor gave you in what to say to your dad, she showed you exactly what to say and exactly how to act.

Many, many thanks to you Elenor for the years of life experience you’ve shared with me in this group. Your style is direct and full of great examples. I receive your wisdom with a hunger to apply what I’m learning.
This is great advice, all the way through! Well expressed. Actually, good advice for all parents – esp. the idea of thinking what the long-term consequences of short-term behaviors.
Hi Elenor, Where do you live????? dang, I’d sure love to learn more from you! You speak everything my common sense and soul tell me.
(To someone else:) Don’t be so hard on yourself. How could you have known without Elenor’s help?
Sounds fantastic. Absolutely worthwhile. Thank you for this. I know it’s going to help too. You sure are greatly helpful, Elenor. Amazingly wonderfully helpful.
You are an angel. Thank you for saying this, this is exactly what was happening.
Which is why I so value these boards and the support of the people here (especially El)…because you all help to keep me on the right path.
Thanks for your email, El, everything you wrote seems to be right on target, and is true, and I especially appreciate the feedback on Pat Allen’s advice. You helped me to interpret her message, and expanded upon it.
Thank YOU! Do you know this is the first time someone has articulated that to me so clearly?
I learn so much from you. Thank you for your giving your advice, I love learning this stuff, how to be the strong yin in my life. It’s so great to learn this stuff from you…
Thank you … bang on the nail!!!!! This is sooo wise, as is your previous email
Elenor, I can’t put into words your willingness to share your time with me on this matter, I could not have made it through without your advice and your firm care regarding my dealings with our office manager. I was a bit nervous prior to the meeting, but once it started, it passed by quickly. Thank you so much. I am very lucky to have you in my *life*. I don’t know how you have so much to give over and over, you really are an inspiration to me.
*I* very very much appreciate your honesty, even though it was hard to swallow at first. I am nowhere near your intelligence and experiences, but I will “follow” you. You really inspire me to be honest with myself and honest with others.

You always bring a fresh perspective and your insight into the situation is awesome! I appreciate you El!
What a thoughtful post from Elenor!
Thank you Elenor. Your words are always so precise. Even though it makes me see sooo much of the things in me that I have to work on, the things you explain to me and the way you explain to me … it just hits it exactly where I need it and I feel much better. I wish I have the solidness and confidence as you do in these things.
Elenor, thank you so much for your support. Your advice is so great, thank you!!
Elenor, thanks so much for all your comments and taking the time to do it. You are so good.
Hi El, Every word you write is so, so true.
Elenor does not charge anything for her advice. She has not written any well-known books, but she has been spot on with any of my issues and has many women who has been helped by her anyhow. By email, Elenor can sound “harsh” but if you can take the time to get to know her, you will realize that she from the bottom of her heart cares and means every word she says.
Elenor, the below you posted is so awesome.
You can at least answer ME on her list, if you want – *I* think your advice is invaluable! (And everyone can benefit from it!)
Elenor, you did such a great job in response to G____, although you must have been so darn pissed off. I know how I feel when someone refuses to listen and then insults! So I just wanted to give you kudos for *controlling* your anger to her. It would have been so much easier to just get rid of someone, but you tried and tried. You won in the end. Thank you for being such a great leader of this forum.
I get so much out of your posts and realize much about myself. Thank you El.
Your guidance and experience in something we’re ALL trying to learn is invaluable!
Thanks El! You’re a wonderful support and I don’t know what we’d do without you!

Thanks E! I appreciate you took the time to write so much back.
I would have no problem saying the flirty stuff you suggest and it does sound great! I loved what you wrote.
WOW! Such clarity! Such wisdom! I am in awe – and I am NOT being sarcastic. Thanks so much El, for the GREAT examples!
El, you are so very kind! THANK YOU! It is amazing how much better I feel, just reading your message! Thanks so much, Elenor! It is very reassuring!
Elenor – I read your response and wanted to thank you. You really got me thinking!
WOW! Thank you again! You are brilliant!
Thanks, El, for this great tidbit. It is one of your great “Pearls of Wisdom” that I, as a wanna-be-Yin woman, add to the string of wonderful tips and advice that you have so generously provided. I have so much difficulty figuring out how to verbalize, this is GREAT help for me.
WOW, El! That was brilliant!!! Totally totally helpful! I’m so grateful to you for doing this work here with us.
As always, thank you so much Elenor for your astute counsel. It helps a lot!
Elenor, I adore you. What a woman! WHAT a WOLF! What a breath of fresh air!
El, you are amazingly “there” for all of us, considering that you have a life away from the computer!
Thanks, El. You are brill!
Thanks to El; so may I say a big gracious thank you for all the time you devote to us!

El! I have definitely not expressed how brilliant I think you are, and how much you have helped me, and how impressed I am with your ability to express Pat’s ideas and help people understand them in practice. This is SO IMPORTANT!
Oh El, you’re absolutely right in saying…
Thanks so much El for putting all this in perspective!
El, thank you always for your humorous emails
Even more wonderful is you sharing it with us all. You’re a one in a million woman!
I got some great advice a few weeks ago from El.
Thanks Elenor, I love reading your emails, so much good stuff, and Pat Allen quotes.
I’ve been reading your posts – and I forgot – so thank you for reminding me that it’s about beauty and meaning…
I really like your email El, as I drink my tea…I find it very illuminating, especially the part about being careful of your words-thoughts-actions.
Hi Elenor, thank you always for your wonderful advice. You wrote it to F____ but it means something to my life as well.
El is great at coaching us
Thank you El, I really appreciate you helping me like this.

I am writing because I wanted to say how much I liked your analogy of the “bait” must wait, and that is their job. (Jim Hallowes, www.HighlySensitivePeople.com)
Fabulous reminder El! <VBG>
I really do thank you for taking the time to answer my email, it really made my week, made the day much more bearable, and shed a new light on my situation for me. I tend to think so terribly about myself and think I did this wrong and that wrong, and that is why he isn’t contacting me. And you must be a psychic, because I think that he is exactly thinking what you said about his assessing the situation and the ramifications of that trip. Your email really helped me see that since you seem to have hit the nail on the head, I would only strive to be as perceptive as you.
Anyway – it is definitely progress from where I was… and that is primarily thanks to you, El!!
From a man: Thanks for the pep talk, El! They always help, and that’s no joke!
I also liked what El wrote this morning in her pre-coffee ramblings ;) actually it was pretty coherent.
Dear El, Again, thank you for sensitivity and encouragement. Love it! We’ll see what emerges… you made me laugh too. Thank you too for the validation on following my heart… That’s a lovely way of reframing things. I think you’re right and it is absurd for me to be quavering anyway … even if not everyone supports my decision. I get what you’re saying. I’m most appreciative as ever,
Your response was illuminating and, I hope, ultimately, freeing. I also loved what you said about ALLOWING ourselves to be the prize and not struggling with the chemistry issue.
Ohmygodohmygodohmygod – you are right. That is a very powerful point, El. Oh gosh. You speak the truth, El.
Elenor, this is all sooo interesting. I hope to learn more ways to be and act yin like this from you.
Hello El: haha, you are a Gestalt expert! Thank you for your coffee thoughts! that is what I needed to read, and it also made me cry from relief. … You are right El: that would be a good topic for the counseling, and to present it the way you suggested is good. … Your email did give me a sign of relief. I really hope your own trip is going well. I wish I was able to think so clearly as you are and articulate my feelings/thoughts better.
First off, Very good advice El! (Jim Hallowes)
Thanks for this post, you are right on in every point!!
You’ve helped me in countless ways…

Thank you sooo much for this thoughtful reply. I appreciate you so much.
++You totally get it! Thank you for this advice. Thanks for putting it into perspective.
Elenor, Thank you!!! for all that you do here!
Thanks, El: that is exactly what I was thinking, but I needed clarification I guess. You put it quite succinctly, I might add!
You are exactly right, El, and I figured that out this weekend, in meditation, prayer, etc.
I am thankful for some people here on clarifying things, especially, you, El.
El, thank you for addressing so well what B____ wrote about N___’s situation. I KNEW I felt uncomfortable with some of what he was saying, but I couldn’t put my finger on it! Thank you for articulating this.
By the way, loved your “rant” the other day about little girls and sexuality.
Hi Elenor, thank you for your quick email responses, as always. Do you think I’ve changed in regards to being doormatty? I’m so glad you can see that in me, because I feel terrible about these situations so often (as you can see)…in your emails to me, you understand what I’m feeling perfectly. You put into words the feelings I’ve felt all my life, the guilt of refusing to do something when someone is asking for it.
It feels so wonderful to have you *stick up for me*.
I thought a lot about you saying that it could be my parents in my head and you’re probably right. Actually you are (almost) always right. (Well, I think you’re always right but you probably will say that you are not always right! ;) ). It helps me so much that you are telling me that it’s ok if I don’t defend myself.
El, you of all people are more than allowed to wag loud, pushy and indulgent fingers at me :) And even if part of me fights it, I know you’re doing it out of the genuine kindness of your heart. I mean, where would half of us be without you!

Hi Elenor. Thanks for your wonderful email!
I really appreciate your response to me, I am going to print it out and read it often!
Elenor, you are still a first class act that gives great advice.
Thanks El – I’ll definitely print this out for future reference
Hi Elenor, you are always very helpful.
Ah, yes, yes! The light bulb just came on! I get it now, I don’t know why this was never clear to me before.
Thanks very much! I appreciate the gentle approach, El.
El, you are so wise.
El – wonderful, wonderful, wonderful!! I have gotten so much out of your postings for the last few weeks – perhaps I shall have to pay for your next R and R cruise!
El, I totally agree with F____! :) I’m really enjoying reading everything you write and just want to know when your book is coming out!! It’s going to be a best seller!!
Wow, thank you El. This is about 100% different from TR [The Rules] so it’s a lot to digest. But yes, I think your suggestions make a lot of sense. Thank you for your suggestions on the email. A BIG improvement over mine.
I feel much better now after having heard your advice. thank you very much!
I have an older, wiser mentor: El! (hey watch that cane! <whack!> ouch!) While we haven’t attempted any direct matchmaking, she keeps me in check when I have a freak-out or an over-think. Thanks El! (Meg)

You’re pretty amazing, El.
I totally understand what you are saying, … however I also think El has a very valid point written below!
I think El has (as always!) stated the PA [Pat Allen] philosophy wonderfully
Elenor YOU ARE FANTASTIC
Oh goodness El, that’s the loveliest thing anyone has said for awhile, thank you SO much, you’ve really made my day :) I absolutely love reading the board messages & especially all the PA advice you take the time to post. Honestly, If it weren’t for you I don’t know where half the members of the board would be or if Pat’s work would be so effective if it weren’t possible to discuss and apply it in detail. For what it’s worth I’ve never considered you either grim or old! Just trying to keep us in line at the best of times!
hi El, just wanted to say that I really enjoyed reading this post to our dear____. It was very insightful to get the analysis because I also got an inkling that she was … But I feel what El is saying is soooo true.
I’ve always personally admired the way you’ve been so open and honest with your own personal life experiences and have sought to educate us all with your knowledge, time and experience.
My gosh, I’ve been reading the posts here and am just amazed at the time and energy you’ve invested in the board, and the thoughtful responses you provide. It’s incredibly generous.
I really like Elenor’s suggestions to you so far …
I think this is great and I totally appreciate the time you took to craft this response. If you could just give me some advice on how to negotiate the timing into the equation, I think this will be just the ticket (or at least something new to try!)
El, your “ears” are amazing… you hear very well indeed.
I know your post was addressed to G___, but I found it very inspirational and kind too, so thank you for posting it
Oh El – this post brought me to tears – THIS IS YOU YOU YOU AT YOUR ABSOLUTE MOST BRILLIANT! THANK YOU – THIS IS THE MOST DIFFICULT PART… – FINAL EXAM? NAH – POST DOCTORATE!!!! (Fran)

Elenor, I think you give the greatest advice! You are definitely such a wonderful addition to the board.
Your advice is lovely and I am enjoying reading a new and fresh perspective.
Thanks El, What a great description. That was VERY helpful.
And El, thanks for giving so freely of yourself to this list.
::: suction cup arrow hits me right between the eyes :::: Ouch!! LOLOLOL
Thank you, El. And thank you for all the time, energy and heart you put into responding here. You are so full of wisdom and so generous with sharing it, I really appreciate it and really have so much to learn from you. Thank you.
Wow what a thoughtful and thorough response, El.
El (the wise one; love guru) reminded you that …
Awesome advice!!
BTW El –YOU ARE the love goddess! I can’t even begin to tell you after all of this time that STILL your advice is sage wisdom and new and fresh and touching to me! (Fran)
love reading your stories, El.
WOW you’re good. You’re really good. …I look forward to more from you.
Wonderful answer! I agree totally.

I absolutely love your flirty, fun, yet chock full of info conversation about “not being able to resist” him! I have to practice that a few times, but I will definitely be using it. I agree, don’t want to get too heavy or “we need to talk”-ish at this point, keep it light, but definitely get your message across! Bravo my dear, great work on interpreting this to my situation…it works perfectly! Thank you.
I got to say most of what I wanted to say (with Elenor’s great help!)…that I appreciated that he was considerate of my virtue by getting 2 beds in the hotel, and then reiterated what I need from him (or anyone) to become intimate (secure rlsp, commitment, monogamy). He really liked the part about when I said it would be hard to resist him Elenor! … El – you should have seem him perk up when I told him that I appreciated him being so gallant to protect my virtue…it’s like I can see his confidence being built up every time we go out and he is becoming a better man every time! He enjoys it and so do I.
I wanted to thank Sassy Girl for the question and El for the great responses. I’m throwing myself back into the dating world again and that was just plain great advice.
I know El has given you perfect advice
Thanks El – I needed to hear that – that’s why I wrote, love and kisses from your adoring daughter in training
It took me at least five years, maybe ten, to learn much of what you’ve written in this one post, Elenor!
Thank you for the story, I enjoyed reading it. and I love it when you look at us up over your glasses, lol! :)
Wow! Great advice! I will use it for sure!… A book is one thing, real people are another! Thanks!
Real good point Elenor! Thank you!!
Thank you very much for your email, you were spot on.
El made a good point in her response post.

Oh, thanks El, for the hearfelt words, that makes me feel better.
Thanks Elenor. It’s mostly thanks to your telling me over and over that it’s just not worth fighting with a person who isn’t worth my time.
Thanks so much El!!
Subj: Re: Question/open mouth insert foot, again – El, I need your input
El you have such a great way of putting things.
I just don’t know when to say what and how often is too much… I’m going to use the examples you posted below.
Your advice is awesome too, El.
Hi El, thanks for the below. You are right, … Thanks so much for helping me, as always.
Elenor, this is great. it has everything Pat in there regarding this situation. It’s good for me to keep reading about this, I can apply some of it to my life too.
I too understand how you feel, and read Elenor’s kind and thoughtful words, she knows what she writes about!
oh, thank goodness for your emails, Elenor, I didn’t sleep much and woke up early, yes, I agree with you,
Elenor, I have never met anyone like you who shows so much compassion for ANYONE who comes around, even though they might be kicking and screaming to not listen, you are still willing to keep going on talking until they hear your words. I thank you so much for that and count on you for that, even though there may be those who are not ready to hear your message/advice. It took me a while to understand your message because I was so uncomfortable, but because I was willing to realize that I could be wrong, I saw what I wanted and needed. Like you always say, you can’t unring a bell. That was certainly the case with me!

I just appreciate the support! (You’ve been very helpful as I lick my wounds, you know?! )
It’s really my pleasure to let you know many times, how often you have helped me. I’ve never had anyone lead me by my hand like that before, and I feel honored to know you and to get your suggestions that are so right-on every time. You have helped me tremendously in opening my eyes to all of this truth. What is it about us girls only wanting to hear the sugar-coated stuff? Is it just that we are afraid to see the truth? How did this happen?
Elenor, I know it is your profession, but you are so great with the wording. What you had written for me is very similar to what I had written, except it’s very concise.
I am glad to know for myself that I can accept uncomfortable truths. That was my lesson when I first met you. Knowing that I can hear the truths and knowing that I can deal with it because it makes me a more knowledgeable and rounded person has made me a much more calmer person to be around. Greg told me the other day that he could tell that I’m much calmer than how I was before. He thanks you (without really knowing what you have done for me) :)
Thank you for this. You’ve helped me get over this problem and now I know how to handle these types of situations in the future, if it should so happen again. I was uncomfortable because I wasn’t sure how to handle it, but you have led the way for me once again. … Thank you Elenor!!!
It’s always nice to hear about what you have to say and to confirm my thoughts.
Thank you for sharing your story. Your stories give me so much insight into what I should do.
Elenor, you are GREAT with people, you will be totally fine!
Once again, you are right on the money with the advice. Have you ever thought about writing a book about work-related problems and being a pro person who gives advice?
This is exactly what I need to say to her. Thank you for suggesting these words!
There are no words to describe your willingness and ability to help me Elenor. Thank you so much…
As much as it hurt, I am extremely grateful for your honesty. I don’t have anyone in my life who can offer me much insight and I don’t necessarily share with others in my circle what I am facing. I figure I can be strong and work it out. In reading your assessment of my situation I see that I can’t do things all alone and I would like your help in making the changes in myself that need to be made so I can be happy and comfortable.

I trust your wisdom and you have always guided me and been the voice of reason. You calm me down and help me to know that the world is not falling apart. The impending doom and gloom that I feel will pass I know. But, how, in the midst of my storm, do you think I should proceed?
Thank you for normalizing my feelings for me and reminding me that my life is just as important, if not more, than what’s going on in the Gulf Region. First of all, thank you reading, listening to my concerns, and taking the time out of your busy schedule to respond to me. I appreciate you and I want you to know that I do not take you for granted. I am glad the world is not falling apart but yes, it felt like mine was! Thank you for those words. I read your comments over and over. I printed a copy to take with me in the car. Please know that you have helped me tremendously this week and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. My situation is better. I am still exhausted and weary but my spirits are better and my attitude has had a positive adjustment!
Thanks for the speedy, and perfect, reply!
El, You are always so good at calmly getting to the heart of the matter, thank you;
our El is so wise…
Oh absolutely. You have his number on this one. It’s about him when he pursues, but he pursues so well that you think it’s about you. But it’s not. ::: thunk on head:::
El’s advice to you on that particular topic hit home for me too
Thanks El. I might not always say it but I appreciate your …direct (lol) advice
Thanks for the advice El, I really feel that I am doing the right thing.
Thanks El. You always know the right thing to say.
You perfectly said what I have found true in my own experiences.
LOL!! El that is hilarious!! I love your writing style!!

See? This is how I know that I was led to this site for a reason. This is exactly what I need. Nobody – even if they knew what was going on with me – would tell it to me straight like this. Thank you El. You made me cry, but it was a good cry that I really needed. I need to get out of fairytale land and face reality.
Woweee! This is some seriously good stuff. I am saving it for/if I go through another break up. This is amazing. Thanks so much for sharing Elenor.
I think El’s suggested note was right-on advice.
…you have the ability to add and answer much more in depth
your advice is “spot” on as always… it’s a good thing for me to read too
after all the angst I have gone through and put this yahoo group through, I was hating it here but now I am grateful that this group is here.
El darling! What would I do without you?
Actually El, this response has helped me tremedously.
Thank you El – as usual, your verbage is perfect.
Wow Elenor … you put the analogy of duty dating and your situation with the departing navy men so well! Thank you so much for sharing.
That was brilliant (thank you, E. Snow).
But I think that El has hit the nail on the head here.

Yes, El, that makes total sense. I want you to know that I appreciate the time and thoughtfulness that you put into your messages.
El, I definitely have to agree!
Elenor – all that I am is because of you …take great pride in that my teacher! And some day I would hope that S____ will be counted among those that you have taught that will teach. love (Fran)
More thoughts, you give me a lot to chew on
This email and a few others made me realize that I am still learning, “how men truly are.”
Your advice is gold (and more!)
Elenor, Wow, my head’s spinning :) Some very deep concepts there.
You’re absolutely right El.
Elenor, I really enjoy reading your posts and I’m glad you are a member of our group
El, you crack me up with your posts and have a big heart helping us work towards a good relationship.
El – I love this metaphor – I’m going to remember it the next time “I don’t feel” like going out … the online dating world IS NOT my only option!

Thanks El, for the better wording! I’m thinking it worked like a charm.
Great example and explanation … thanks El, thanks for taking the time to explain this. I fully understand the (Fisher King) wound now :D
El I am always here and get a lot from being on this list. It has helped me in so many ways over the years. Pat Allen is a very wise and so are you.
Thank you. You have put into words what I have been feeling but could not figure out how to say it.
Thank you so very much!!!! If I could hug you, I would.
I like the image of you throwing information at us, which is what you do, and we love you for it (most of the time)
That is a good point El, and I never thought of it, but it does make sense.
We’re so lucky for it too. if you didn’t read/listen/research all this stuff for us, we wouldn’t be able to get advice from you like this.
I want to express my heartfelt, thank you to you. I can’t find the right words to express what your posts, especially this weekend, have meant to me. You have literally changed my life for the better. God’s not done with me yet and I know you aren’t either. I hope you realize your words travel much further and affect many more lives than just us here. Like ripples in a pond. Thank you!!
Hi El, perfect!! I wish I had you to talk to when I used to date!!
Thank god for this board, El, Fran and everybody else here for helping to give us this knowledge.
You really have given me more food for thought!

Elenor is always such an eloquent writer, always dotting her i’s and crossing her T’s, I feel like I am reading The New Yorker magazine or something like that (Yankee Magazine). Everytime I read her emails, no matter how short. Not only in content, but since she was an editor too, I should be writing in correct punctuation and grammar/spelling too.
I find my own writing has slipped a great deal since I’ve been active in these forums, and when I see writing like El’s, it gives me something to model (and even aspire to) :)
Pat’s book is great but I didn’t get much from it, it’s El’s breakdowns of the theories and the files in the file section that make everything make sense.
Thanks for the whacking El. You saved us! I just didn’t get it till now. Thank you so much El, and Diana, and Fran, and DL. What would I do without you?
(After I had written: “You may find me easier to ‘take’ if you understand where I am coming from. I’m nice, but not gentle…”)
I disagree my darling El–you are being gentle for it is only a gentlewoman who understands this.
Whew! That’s a lot of info. You’re so generous with your time. I’m going to put it in a Word doc so I don’t lose it!
El – that was wonderful. I really appreciate your thoughtful reply.
of course, there are bad seeds out there, but what El does for us is to teach us to try to discern the bad seeds from the good ones and not look at the entire seed packet as stink weeds. (Fran)
I could hug you. Is that okay? ((((((Elenor))))))
Gosh I love when you get on a roll El! Every thing you say rings true to me.
Very nice letter El. You were worth waiting for.
I love your coffee talks, El, I used to thrive on them when I was in the doldrums with …

I think this forum is the most wonderful place since sliced bread, and Elenor, you have impressed the heck out of me!! Is there anyone as smart and as direct and willing to chip in and help as you anywhere on the WWW?? I am not sure.
Woah, really blows my mind. El is right, part of this is just societal right now. It is mind blowing really. I am soooo thankful for this group we have here.
Thank you El!! That was inspiring and I am heading back in to the lion’s den this evening and needed to hear what I best heed again anyway.
Thanks Elenor. You know you need to write a book.
Thank you for posting the new files, El. And for making my transcription look so much better than it did. You’ve posted so many great things!! I’m so excited. I’m like a kid in a candy store.
I have read your response to A____ – makes sense. It’s a relief to hear you express things in this way. Quite apart from any underlying personal feelings you have, the points you make are SUPER helpful to me.
Oh Joy!!! I’m so glad I communicated my feelings with you – your response feels really good to me. I am just about to kick off with my work but wanted to get straight back to you to say thank you.
El had written to me privately (hope you don’t mind me sharing a bit of this El) and I really had a lightbulb moment thanks to her very thoughtful email.
I buy what El’s been talking about. Makes sense to me.
I want to say that regardless of what happens, the Pat stuff (and your guidance) has been totally wonderful.
Hi El, Thanks for your reply, this is why I come here, to have you set me straight :)
oh El–brilliant as usual

Thank you El. You have such a wonderful way of putting things into a positive perspective, and so different from the conclusions I was jumping to.
Thanks El, I love and appreciate that you are so thorough.
El, Sounds very good…going into my “read over and over” file.
I know, El, that’s exactly what I thought at the time,
You always seem to have the right thing to say.
Just wanted to say I love the things you write here.… :) especially the part about being wonderful, in addition to being blah blah blah. The fact is that we’re all flawed, and wonderful, and that’s life…. and so are the men we fall in love with. So, expecting them to be perfect is pointless.… it’s just that our flaws and their flaws, and our greatness and their greatness, should complement each other! Anyway, I don’t always get to read everything just because of time constraints, but I enjoy it when I do get to read it. (Kate Frank)
That makes a lot of sense, thanks.
and once again, my darling el, you’ve gotten here before I did. loving your (old lady) style and your (young lady) attitude! xxx (Fran)
I hadn’t thought of that before!! That’s great stuff, El.
This is absolute gold. You really hit the nail on the head with a lot of the thinking that’s wrong in many male-female relationships… and in female-female relationships, what I see ends up being TWO people each blaming the other! El, would you mind putting this in the files?
I LOVE your perspective on Pat’s work.
What a wonderful reply!!! I need to absorb all this. I’ll digest more later and get back to your responses. Very wise and well thought out I can see!
Oh thank you soo much El. I truly like your ideas. Bless you!

El, thanks for wording that in a more gracious way.
El, I really liked this post. It was a great ‘refresher course’!
Wow! Such an awesome post…some of that should probably go in the list files. Thank you.
I LOVE this post. It says a lot of important things, and not just to _____, but to all women in similar situations. Thanks, El!
El, you have such a wonderful way with words!
The third thing that I would like to add is something that El wrote somewhere back in the Year of the Dinosaur (that I read when I began my work) that I’ve kept with me on a bit of paper in my wallet. When I have a date with a man that I’m overly excited about, I take this out just before my date and read it. (I don’t think that I’ve ever told you that El.) It reads:
Yin {feminine energy} is still, calm, centered, hidden, quiet, soft, and yielding; waiting, listening, receptive and following.

Elenor Snow: Testimonials